BBC - how does it fight back?

[Keith]

There is a potential case for the BBC to close down R1 Dance, R1 Relax, and even 1Xtra. Whilst particularly the first two probably don't cost that much to run there is a question of whether the BBC should be trying to compete with commercial stations.

With radio in general looking at https://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/help-gui...requencies it's interesting to note that there are still some MW frequencies in use. I didn't realise radio 4 has some MW frequencies as well as FM. With Asian Network at the very least the MW frequencies should be axed. In my opinion if there is specific regional demand then arguably it could be catered for as part of those English local radio stations, and in possibly also in general via programmes on one of the other national stations.

I seem to recall last year there was a press release regarding to changes being made to the TV channels, including the axing of channel controller roles. With BBC Four switching to showing repeats / archive material I seem to recall BBC Two was set to be refocussed to something similar to how it was in the 90s. It may be interesting to see what happens when these changes are fully rolled out.

[Blobs]

The radio services I have suggest shedding could easily be filled by the private sector with the exception of Radio 4

And what about the millions who do listen to those radio services? Anyone who thinks Radio 1 and Capital are the same has obviously never listened to either. And let's not even pretend the likes of Radio X are the private sector equivalent of 6 Music.

The services would still exist but in the private sector.

Capital and Radio X were set up to serve specific audiences, as was Radio 1 and 6 Music.

Are you seriously telling me that no private sector operators would absolutely jump at the opportunity to bid for a licence for these stations, even if the licences come with heavy conditions?

There would be feeding frenzy to inherit those audiences.

But they would be incredibly watered down versions of what those audiences had and liked. 6 Music as it is could not exist in the private sector. Or the Asian Network or even Radio 1. They would all be pale imitations of what they are now with the added bonus of 12 minutes worth of ads every hour and the generic non breakfast/drive hosts reminding you every link of how you can win 20 grand on the big name signing breakfast show with T Mobile tomorrow morning.

[johnnyboy]

The cormircial sector does not want stations like radio 1 or 2 privatetised because they will loose a lot of money as all the advertisiers will just want to be on the new radio 1 or 2 so it will only be the new owners that will benifit while rival stations will probably go out of business

I believe it would be the bigger incumbants within the commercial sector who would find it the most attractive.

In addition, the number of radio stations has proliferated over the last 20 years meaning that your assetion that "rival stations will probably go out of business" is almost certainly wrong.

[johnnyboy]

But they would be incredibly watered down versions of what those audiences had and liked. 6 Music as it is could not exist in the private sector. Or the Asian Network or even Radio 1. They would all be pale imitations of what they are now with the added bonus of 12 minutes worth of ads every hour and the generic non breakfast/drive hosts reminding you every link of how you can win 20 grand on the big name signing breakfast show with T Mobile tomorrow morning.

Perhaps they would or perhaps they would raise the standards for other commercial stations.

If a commercial operator drew a larger share of advertising cash from the market by providing these services to at or near the standards of the BBC, their rivals would react to this by changing their own offerings because that's what the market wants.

Who knows?

Under my plan, there would be certain quality standards they'd have to meet to make themselves eligible to bid for a licence.

[James Martin]

The issue with privatising Radio 2 in particular is it doesn't solve an existing issue, that it's shafting the commercial sector.

Right now IMHO Radio 2 is not distinctive enough to justify public money. Like Radio 1 30 years previously, it's too successful to justify public money.

But if Radio 2 had to air advertising that would hurt the existing network even more, no doubt.

[Brekkie]

If the last year doesn't prove the value of BBC Local Radio especially, along with the national stations, I don't know what does. They just have the reach, ability and motivation to interact with viewers in times like these in a way commercial radio just doesn't seem to achieve - especially at a local and reginal level.

Similarly even with us heading into a weekend where an event will be shared across two channels but in all likelihood 80% of the 30m or so watching will probably choose the BBC (based on previous finals) I can't believe there are still people who question it's value. It's not about whether the commercial sector could deliver the same content to just as wide an audience - it's about whether viewers and listeners actually want them too.

[MatijaTelevizija]

And then there is even people that see it as pointless to even provide services for minorities ( Sign-zone and the radio Asian Network in particular , also Audio-Description sometimes gets this because people don’t get how Blind people would be watching TV ) ?

Obviously I feel that most of the services offered by the BBC are important ( besides from some radio stations and UKTV channels ) but that they also heavily waste their money ?

[johnnyboy]

If the last year doesn't prove the value of BBC Local Radio especially, along with the national stations, I don't know what does. They just have the reach, ability and motivation to interact with viewers in times like these in a way commercial radio just doesn't seem to achieve - especially at a local and reginal level.

Similarly even with us heading into a weekend where an event will be shared across two channels but in all likelihood 80% of the 30m or so watching will probably choose the BBC (based on previous finals) I can't believe there are still people who question it's value. It's not about whether the commercial sector could deliver the same content to just as wide an audience - it's about whether viewers and listeners actually want them too.

BBC local radio is dire and it could easily be provided by the private sector. It's almost as risible as hospital radio.

It's cheap filler at best most of the times whose news and information is fed to it by local public sector organisations.

While I accept your point that commercial radio is becoming more centralised, there is a fair amount of syndication across BBC local radio too.

[gottago]

I can't read the original Times article so I don't know if it goes into the reasoning why but there's a lot to be said about the last year and why 700k would've stop paying that isn't to do with the quality of service they're offering. A lot of people moved back home to save money/have a better lockdown and would've stopped paying the license fee as a result, a lot of students remained at home and wouldn't have paid for a license in their student home, a lot of people lost their jobs or were furloughed and would have been reluctant or unable to pay £159 regardless of the legalities of that, some people will have left the country to due Brexit and no longer need a license fee. These numbers all add up. 2020 was too unusual a year to dismiss this as the BBC offering a poorer service.

Personally I don't think I've ever consumed as much BBC as I have over the last year, and that's not because of lockdown. IMO the quality of what they're offering has skyrocketed across most genres (not entertainment) and I'm using iPlayer more than any other service.

The idea that reducing the number of services they offer is going to bring back license fee payers just isn't going to happen, even if the quality on the remaining services increases. For the same reason Sky launched a load of new channels to replace the ones that were closing, if they're offering less on paper then people aren't going to be willing to pay the same amount of money as they were when more brands were available.

[Blobs]

But they would be incredibly watered down versions of what those audiences had and liked. 6 Music as it is could not exist in the private sector. Or the Asian Network or even Radio 1. They would all be pale imitations of what they are now with the added bonus of 12 minutes worth of ads every hour and the generic non breakfast/drive hosts reminding you every link of how you can win 20 grand on the big name signing breakfast show with T Mobile tomorrow morning.

Perhaps they would or perhaps they would raise the standards for other commercial stations.

If a commercial operator drew a larger share of advertising cash from the market by providing these services to at or near the standards of the BBC, their rivals would react to this by changing their own offerings because that's what the market wants.

Who knows?

This is Global and Bauer we're talking about. Think of what they could have done for local radio but chose not to. I get what you're thinking and in an ideal world would be workable but imo it's an overly optimistic and rosy view of how the commercial sector works.

The issue with privatising Radio 2 in particular is it doesn't solve an existing issue, that it's shafting the commercial sector.

Right now IMHO Radio 2 is not distinctive enough to justify public money. Like Radio 1 30 years previously, it's too successful to justify public money.

So, to sum up the last 6 pages, we're getting rid of Radio's 1 & 2 because they're too popular and getting rid of Asian Network and 6 Music because they're too niche. Logical thinking, lads.

[johnnyboy]

But they would be incredibly watered down versions of what those audiences had and liked. 6 Music as it is could not exist in the private sector. Or the Asian Network or even Radio 1. They would all be pale imitations of what they are now with the added bonus of 12 minutes worth of ads every hour and the generic non breakfast/drive hosts reminding you every link of how you can win 20 grand on the big name signing breakfast show with T Mobile tomorrow morning.

Perhaps they would or perhaps they would raise the standards for other commercial stations.

If a commercial operator drew a larger share of advertising cash from the market by providing these services to at or near the standards of the BBC, their rivals would react to this by changing their own offerings because that's what the market wants.

Who knows?

This is Global and Bauer we're talking about. Think of what they could have done for local radio but chose not to. I get what you're thinking and in an ideal world would be workable but imo it's an overly optimistic and rosy view of how the commercial sector works.

The issue with privatising Radio 2 in particular is it doesn't solve an existing issue, that it's shafting the commercial sector.

Right now IMHO Radio 2 is not distinctive enough to justify public money. Like Radio 1 30 years previously, it's too successful to justify public money.

So, to sum up the last 6 pages, we're getting rid of Radio's 1 & 2 because they're too popular and getting rid of Asian Network and 6 Music because they're too niche. Logical thinking, lads.

i never mentioned getting rid of "Radio's 1 & 2 because they're too popular and getting rid of Asian Network and 6 Music because they're too niche".

I mentioned getting rid of services (some of which were radio, others not) that the BBC offered which the commercial sector could replace to free up more money for TV programming.

No wonder you didn't think my reasoning was logical because you completely misunderstood it

[Blobs]

i never mentioned getting rid of "Radio's 1 & 2 because they're too popular and getting rid of Asian Network and 6 Music because they're too niche".

I mentioned getting rid of services (some of which were radio, others not) that the BBC offered which the commercial sector could replace to free up more money for TV programming.

No wonder you didn't think my reasoning was logical because you completely misunderstood it

I didn't direct quote you. I said "So, to sum up the last 6 pages..".

[Night Thoughts]

You know what, I think the BBC should scrap everything apart from the stuff I like.

:o



It's interesting how much of this always goes back to the radio services. Compared with some of the other BBC stations, Radios 1 and 2 are a relative bargain, are loved by their audience and also the music industry. 6 Music has grown to a comparable stature in its second decade, too. It'd be suicidal for the BBC to scrap any of them; privatisation would cause havoc in the commercial sector. 1Xtra, too, for reaching the parts other bits of the BBC simply can't. The R1 spin-offs are probably cheap as chips to run, R1 Relax is surprisingly public-service with its mindfulness/mental health focus.

Imagine a lot of production companies might lose out here, but I'm surprised the BBC has been allowed to do so many new podcasts - obviously there's infinite room for content but only so many ears to listen and it does look like they're trying to crowd out the market a bit. I'd trim back on those - wouldn't be the biggest saving but would be a tactical manoeuvre.

Similarly, the news website seems to have grown again after its last set of cutbacks - cutting it back again would not a massive saving, but would throw a bone to the commercial sector.

If we have to cut something, it'd have to be BBC4, merged into a bigger and better BBC2. But again, I can't imagine that saving much if BBC4 is becoming an archive-only channel.

It's been mentioned before, but I do think the BBC should put more resources into being local - do more with local BBC1, invest properly in local news, do more local things, boost local radio; scrapping Inside Out was one of its dimmer ideas. It should try to take on the mantle ITV once had, and go beyond that where possible.

And the idea of having one massive hit a fortnight to hammer home just what an incredible job the BBC does appeals strongly. Even if those hits sometimes fall into the BBC's lap - most viewers wouldn't imagine watching this Sunday's sport on anywhere other than BBC1 (ITV also having the football merely being a sign of the healthy mix of competition and co-operation we all benefit from).

The BBC does a far greater job for this country on £5bn of income than Sky does on £13bn - and it shouldn't be afraid to remind people of this.

https://youtu.be/bh9hz9wsHgw

[MatijaTelevizija]

You know what, I think the BBC should scrap everything apart from the stuff I like.

:o



It's interesting how much of this always goes back to the radio services. Compared with some of the other BBC stations, Radios 1 and 2 are a relative bargain, are loved by their audience and also the music industry. 6 Music has grown to a comparable stature in its second decade, too. It'd be suicidal for the BBC to scrap any of them; privatisation would cause havoc in the commercial sector. 1Xtra, too, for reaching the parts other bits of the BBC simply can't. The R1 spin-offs are probably cheap as chips to run, R1 Relax is surprisingly public-service with its mindfulness/mental health focus.

Imagine a lot of production companies might lose out here, but I'm surprised the BBC has been allowed to do so many new podcasts - obviously there's infinite room for content but only so many ears to listen and it does look like they're trying to crowd out the market a bit. I'd trim back on those - wouldn't be the biggest saving but would be a tactical manoeuvre.

Similarly, the news website seems to have grown again after its last set of cutbacks - cutting it back again would not a massive saving, but would throw a bone to the commercial sector.

If we have to cut something, it'd have to be BBC4, merged into a bigger and better BBC2. But again, I can't imagine that saving much if BBC4 is becoming an archive-only channel.

It's been mentioned before, but I do think the BBC should put more resources into being local - do more with local BBC1, invest properly in local news, do more local things, boost local radio; scrapping Inside Out was one of its dimmer ideas. It should try to take on the mantle ITV once had, and go beyond that where possible.

And the idea of having one massive hit a fortnight to hammer home just what an incredible job the BBC does appeals strongly. Even if those hits sometimes fall into the BBC's lap - most viewers wouldn't imagine watching this Sunday's sport on anywhere other than BBC1 (ITV also having the football merely being a sign of the healthy mix of competition and co-operation we all benefit from).

The BBC does a far greater job for this country on £5bn of income than Sky does on £13bn - and it shouldn't be afraid to remind people of this.

https://youtu.be/bh9hz9wsHgw

We are sharing a brain ? But what is your opinion on the accessibility services offered ? Some people think those are wasteful and should be scrapped ?

[lobster]

The main problem with the BBC is that it has grown into an unwieldy mess, rotten with malignant institutional stupidity and a stuck in a rut kind of mindset.

Look at all the scandals over the last few years and how badly it handled all of them - Cliff Richard, Naga Munchetty, the gender pay gap, Bashir, Saville, etc etc.

Sadly, I think this is a manifestation of a toxic blame management culture within the organisation - this prevents people taking risk and being accountable - and not only does this show in the behaviour of the organisation in the face of scandal and criticism, it manifests in the output too.

There are very few things of value the BBC does which would not seem at home on any other streaming service these days - news and current affairs are still excellent, as is childrens', but the learning zone long dead, the day time schedule is awful, and every year at Christmas when they should pull out all the stops, what do we get? another mrs brown's boys, call the midwife, and a badly lit murder in the queen vic.

The corporation needs a massive cull and overhaul, with new blood and new ways of thinking - that is the only way it can survive.