The Logo Finding/Discussion Thread

[nionlogos18]

Ruth Rendall was one of those shows that was originally made by TVS "in association with" an independent production company and Meridian took it over.  ITV3 can only air the later episodes, the post 1992 shows.  We all know the story about TVS and the archive, but Wiki suggests the second, fourth, fifth and six series of Ruth Rendell Mysteries did appear on DVD Germany a few years ago (unsure if just subtitled or if it was dubbed), which suggests the underlying issues are not totally insurmountable given enough resources.

I remember the TVS era episodes aired on ITV3 in the mid 2000s. There’s some ITV3 rips on YouTube, some with the 2004 Buena Vista logo at the end.

[JAS84]

Buena Vista? As in Disney, the company who owns TVS? The archive isn't lost then. They just put it in their infamous vault!

[nionlogos18]

Today’s Matlock (S8 E5) had the usual full length Wigga.

One thing I’ve noticed is, why is CBS Drama only airing like two season 8 episodes?

[Neil Jones]

Thought I'd plonk this on here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUJTY0gtI1U

Supposedly discovered on a reel projector found in an an antiques shop in New York, this is the original title sequence for a 1950 Tom & Jerry cartoon.
Which is unique because it was the only Tom & Jerry cartoon to have a textless title card (the classic red one with Jerry sitting on his name)

When the cartoon was reissued in 1957 that was all replaced with the blue card variations (both MGM's and Tom & Jerry's) and the original textless title was never seen again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLjO9c_HKLQ

Like most cartoons of the 1930s/40s/50s, Tom & Jerry was made for adult audiences and intended to be seen prior to the main feature in the cinema/theatre, so if you saw this at the time it would have been a rare sighting of a textless title card for a then highly successful cartoon series.

MGM unfortunately had a vault fire in 1965 which wiped out (amongst other things) the masters of pre 1951 episodes of Tom & Jerry episodes, which for this particularly cartoon left only the version with the blue titles.

Perhaps ironically when Tom & Jerry was rebooted in the 1980s they went back to a remake of the original title card that had been covered up in the 1950s and continued using the same logo (by and large) as they were using in the classic era, late 40's/early 50's.  Fandom suggests they'd even gone and dug out/recreated a first generation title card for use on "shorts" in 2021.  And the 2021 feature film doesn't use any of the existing T&J branding, so there's some wonderful consistency for you.

[nionlogos18]

Interesting but bear in mind this thread is really only for logo finds from UK media (American finds are allowed here but have to be sourced from say a UK/Irish airing/DVD/streaming service/whatever)

[nionlogos18]

Matlock S4 starting again on CBS Drama. Your chance to get some V of Steels.

[nionlogos18]

Sorry for another bump, just wanted to say Paramount+ is launching in the UK on Wednesday, so we may get some rarities. We already have a list of at least some of the shows coming to Paramount+ which may contain rarities:

The 4400: May keep it's Viacom ViaBot logo, it did on Horror airings (owned by Paramount) as well.
Charmed: May keep the Worldvision WHOOSH Globe, but pretty sure the show got remastered in 2018 and all episodes use the CBS Television Distribution logo in its place (however Amazon Prime and All4 are using Worldvision era prints so there may a chance)
Cheers: I expect the 1995 Paramount Television logo and/or CBS Distribution logos. Channel 4 uses prints with 1995 Paramount, CBSTD, or CBS Studios International.
Frasier: Original Paramount logos may be intact.
Oz: May also keep ViaBots. Sky airings do too. Also I think HBO owns this show in the US.

I'm hoping they'll be more older shows than this, then again the video I saw called this a “pre-release preview”. If not I may see if I can request some shows to be added to the service. I'd like to see some shows previously aired on CBS Drama/Justice like Gunsmoke, Matlock (both already on Pluto TV in the UK), Perry Mason, and maybe a few shows that haven't aired here in a long time like Rawhide (last aired on TCM in the mid 2010s), My Three Sons (not sure when this last aired), etc.

Meanwhile in the TV world, I haven't really been paying attention lately. TCM did add a show called Sugarfoot, a 50s Warner Bros western, so we may find another sighting of the WB logo from the time. TG4 (Ireland) also acquired Hart to Hart, however from the looks of it they're remastered prints. I'll have a look at what I can find today.

[nionlogos18]

Stuff I found on Paramount+:

The 4400 S1 E1: Viacom “ViaBot” kept.
Oz S4 E1: HBO Original Programming at the beginning, Viacom “ViaBot” and Rysher Entertainment logos kept at the end. No CBS Studios International, which surprised me a little bit, as Paramount+ US don't have this show due to HBO owning it there (might be on HBO Max there) and the fact that Sky airings have the CBS Studios International logo
Cheers S1 E1: Paramount Blue Mountain plastered with the 1995 Paramount logo, as expected. No other shows on Paramount+ that will give you the Blue Mountain.
Frasier S1 E1: Was expecting the Paramount logo with “A Paramount Communications Company” byline but it was plastered with the 1995 logo. Print looked quite old too.
Frasier S10 E1: Despite the print being remastered to widescreen, the Paramount 90th Anniversary was kept. Channel 4 air the show in 4:3.
Charmed S1 E1: Worldvision logo kept. Nice to see this, as I know the show got remastered in 2018.

MOVIES:

Big Jake (1971) - 2003 Paramount logo at beginning followed by Cinema Center.
The Golden Child (1986) - Paramount 75th Anniversary at the beginning, Paramount Blue Mountain at the end.
Hondo (1953): 2010 Paramount logo, followed by Warner Bros. logo of the time. Film4 had this too but 4:3.
Mean Girls (2002): Paramount logo with theme (the one on the home video logo)
Pulp Fiction (1994): Original Miramax logo plastered with the 2008 logo. Shame, apparently most current prints keep this logo. All the other Miramax films on Paramount+ I checked didn't have the 1987 Miramax kept either.
Rio Lobo (1970) - Cinema Center at beginning, 2020 Paramount at the end, was expecting CBS Television Distribution.

Overall, not much to see currently but hoping that changes.

Sugarfoot has the first WB logo (on TCM, not Paramount), it was nice to see the opening variant on TV for the first time.
Also, the first episode of Perry Mason aired on RealityXtra (formerly CBS Drama) today. Usual CBS Zooming Eye. I wonder if any episode have the first CBS Paramount logo, I think some prints of S1/S2 have that logo. I'll have a look,

[Aplus1]

Frasier S10 E1: Despite the print being remastered to widescreen, the Paramount 90th Anniversary was kept. Channel 4 air the show in 4:3.

I don’t think that was a remaster - Season 10 was originally made in 16:9 HD for NBC in 2002, as was Season 11 the following year. 4:3 copies were still available for international broadcasters who needed/preferred them, though.

[nionlogos18]

Frasier S10 E1: Despite the print being remastered to widescreen, the Paramount 90th Anniversary was kept. Channel 4 air the show in 4:3.

I don’t think that was a remaster - Season 10 was originally made in 16:9 HD for NBC in 2002, as was Season 11 the following year. 4:3 copies were still available for international broadcasters who needed/preferred them, though.

Interesting that the show was originally made in 16:9 yet 4:3 copies exist too.

[Neil Jones]

I don’t think that was a remaster - Season 10 was originally made in 16:9 HD for NBC in 2002, as was Season 11 the following year. 4:3 copies were still available for international broadcasters who needed/preferred them, though.

Interesting that the show was originally made in 16:9 yet 4:3 copies exist too.

That was pretty common practice for a lot of US shows in the late 1990s and 2000s. to be done on film and the shot/protected for 4:3.

Friends is the obvious example here, though in fairness it wasn't framed for 16:9 and you can see a lot of stuff at the edge of the frame, but because it was shot on film so they can go back and remaster it to 16:9 HD from (IIRC) 35mm film. Which is the proper way to do this job.

Remember remaster doesn't mean restoration, it means recreation.

We saw this phenomenon a couple of years ago when all the YouTube music videos were "remastered" - or not as the case may be. Wham's Last Christmas? Beautiful. Some other stuff? Yeah, whatever.

Some American sitcoms were done on videotape, so they can never see a proper HD restoration without it looking, well like total crap basically. Home Improvement for example, which was done on videotape even in its later years, presumably to match the rest of the series look wise (even if the kids did insist on growing up!). But most high profile US shows of this era I believe were done on film.

Upscaled/"HD" videotape that has been cropped and zoomed to "make" it HD deserves only to be seen in one of two places: The bin or a bonfire. Or a bin in a bonfire if it makes you happy.

[AaronLancs]

Stuff I found on Paramount+:

Charmed S1 E1: Worldvision logo kept. Nice to see this, as I know the show got remastered in 2018.

I'd take it Charmed still has the Spelling Television logo still then with that light greenish background? And also, was the byline as I have mentioned before "A Paramount / Viacom / CBS* Company" as well?

*Amend as necessary.

[nionlogos18]

Stuff I found on Paramount+:

Charmed S1 E1: Worldvision logo kept. Nice to see this, as I know the show got remastered in 2018.

I'd take it Charmed still has the Spelling Television logo still then with that light greenish background? And also, was the byline as I have mentioned before "A Paramount / Viacom / CBS* Company" as well?

*Amend as necessary.

It does. The byline was A Paramount/Viacom Company iirc

[nionlogos18]

Not fully related to logos, but it still fits here:

A Touch of Frost airings on ITV3 seem to be interesting in terms of credits, and also logos. They usually replace credits seen on the original prints with those seen from a later episode. For example, S4 E1, a 1996 episode, which I saw on ITV3 just yesterday, uses credits from a 2004 episode (albeit cropped to 4:3, either that or they are special credits made to plaster the 1996 ones). 

Season 4 seems to be an odd mix with this practice, with episodes using 2004 credits and logos (A Granada Yorkshire Production in association with Excelsior) cropped to 4:3 (for example S4 E1, as I said), episodes keeping the original credits and logos, (for example, S4 E3 (on a side note S3 E3 uses this too, but the ITV3 print has black bars on it meaning the ITV3 bug is seen in the 16:9 ratio and the Yorkshire Television Ltd. copyright is replaced with ITV Studios Limited)), episodes using the 2008 credits and logos (ITV Productions in assocation with Excelsior) cropped to 4:3, (for example S4 E4). I'll have to check the rest of this season when it airs to see what other oddities appear. 

Season 4 isn't the only season to use this “credit replacing” practice however. Most season 1 episodes (which date from 1994) use the credits from 2002 episodes (however the credits are in 16:9 while the logo (A Yorkshire Television Production in association with Excelsior) is 4:3 oddly), while some season 5 episodes, (like S5 E2) which date back to 1997 use credits from 2001 episodes. It's extremely weird, and they've been using the S1-S5 end credits theme on the plastered credits, too. 

Ironically enough the Virgin Media stations in Ireland seem to use way more modern prints than ITV. I've seen episodes on there keeping their original credits, however logos aren't always preserved. I remember seeing a S4 episode with the 2013 ITV Studios Global Entertainment logo, and usually when logos are preserved it's followed by the ITV logo. 

Anyways, here's a rundown of what logos can be found on ITV3 airings of Frost (these weren't captured by me, but a YouTuber called Luke2505 TV:

 
This was seen on most episodes on ITV3. Strangely, the logo is in 4:3, despite the credits being 16:9. A 16:9 version of this endcap does exist, I'm sure I saw it on Virgin once, but doesn't seem to air on ITV3.


From the looks of it this seems to be on a couple S3 episodes. 


This seems to be intact on some S4 episodes. 


This seems to also appear on some S4 episodes. 


This seems to appear on some S3 and S4 episodes, and should appear on S11-12 episodes too. Despite the copyright on this capture saying 2002, I think the Granada logo debuted in 2004. Correct me if I'm wrong. 


Appears on some S5 episodes. Also should appear on some S8 episodes if ITV3 air them.


Appears on some S6 episodes, and should appear on some S13-14 episodes if aired on ITV3.


Appears on some S11 episodes. This is the rarest thing found on this show so far in my opinion as this is the only time so far I've seen one of the 2001-2004 Granada owned franchise endcaps having “ITV Studios Limited” instead of “Granada”. Also intact on a Virgin airing, followed by the 2009 ITV Studios Global Entertainment logo,

I'm also pretty sure some episodes, especially from S15, used an “ITV Studios in association with Excelsior” endcap, however I was unable to find anyone who uploaded that logo.

[nionlogos18]

Last night's Frost had the 2013 ITV logo, but the Yorkshire Television copyright notice was kept. Strange.