Ident Tropes

[Blubatt]

What are some common features of Idents you love or hate? The Youtuber Matthew Harris has been clear in the past that he finds live action idents, with a logo stamped on top to be weaker than those that have a solid, single symbol. I want to know what the rest of TVLF think on the matter? For me, one thing I really don't like in idents is a tendency to reduce the length of an ident over time, for the continuity. I understand why its done on channels like ITV or Channel 4, but BBC and its circles were horribly cut down, which made the ident less fun, and gave us less of what I consider to be a good form up.

[JAS84]

Yeah, just slapping a logo on a live action scene is kind of lazy, but it's even worse if there's no logo whatsoever (like the Channel 5 idents that preceded the current set), as how do they advertise the channel? If you think about it, CG channel symbols are almost completely out of fashion, in favour of wordmarks. Modern idents are often more like art pieces (that's what Oneness was supposed to be!) and not good graphic design.

[Rex]

Yeah, just slapping a logo on a live action scene is kind of lazy, but it's even worse if there's no logo whatsoever (like the Channel 5 idents that preceded the current set), as how do they advertise the channel? If you think about it, CG channel symbols are almost completely out of fashion, in favour of wordmarks. Modern idents are often more like art pieces (that's what Oneness was supposed to be!) and not good graphic design.

Channel 4 and 5 believed it would be bold to use abstract branding. It really did not work, as well produced as those idents are.

Although, we are seeing a changing shift away from purely live action idents anyhow over time, almost all of the 5 terrestrials for example are either heavily using CG (BBC Two and Channel 5), using both live action and CG (Channel 4) or making use of creative ways to produce them.

[all new Phil]

Yeah, just slapping a logo on a live action scene is kind of lazy, but it's even worse if there's no logo whatsoever (like the Channel 5 idents that preceded the current set), as how do they advertise the channel?

I disagree with you on this. I think people here can get hung up on the idea that an ident needs a logo on it otherwise it doesn’t work. It’s a 10-15 second clip that sits alongside the rest of a package of programming and branding, it doesn’t come down to just this to “advertise the channel”. The ident is just the background to someone introducing the programme and should set the tone of the channel.

Channel 4 and 5 believed it would be bold to use abstract branding. It really did not work, as well produced as those idents are.

The Channel 5 ones you refer to weren’t great I agree (tried to be arty but didn’t fit the tone of the channel I thought). I presume you mean the previous Channel 4 idents (the ones with the mining etc)? I thought these were excellent. A brilliant concept, perfectly executed, and felt thoroughly Channel 4. They didn’t need a 4 to appear at the end or throughout as it wouldn’t have added a thing.

[EeveeSparkles]

I'm personally a big fan of idents that have little characters in them, particularly the C4 Giant, Red for Virgin1, Eefer for E4, the BBC Three blobs and the "Personality" 2s for BBC Two. I'm not too keen on live action idents either, ESPECIALLY the BBC One package I don't want to name.

[Rex]

Yeah, just slapping a logo on a live action scene is kind of lazy, but it's even worse if there's no logo whatsoever (like the Channel 5 idents that preceded the current set), as how do they advertise the channel?

I disagree with you on this. I think people here can get hung up on the idea that an ident needs a logo on it otherwise it doesn’t work. It’s a 10-15 second clip that sits alongside the rest of a package of programming and branding, it doesn’t come down to just this to “advertise the channel”. The ident is just the background to someone introducing the programme and should set the tone of the channel.

Channel 4 and 5 believed it would be bold to use abstract branding. It really did not work, as well produced as those idents are.

The Channel 5 ones you refer to weren’t great I agree (tried to be arty but didn’t fit the tone of the channel I thought). I presume you mean the previous Channel 4 idents (the ones with the mining etc)? I thought these were excellent. A brilliant concept, perfectly executed, and felt thoroughly Channel 4. They didn’t need a 4 to appear at the end or throughout as it wouldn’t have added a thing.

Yeah, I felt that they were very bold concepts for idents, Channel 4 knocked it out of the park though, shame they didn't last long. Channel 5's efforts ended up being particularly average by comparison

[Lynetwork]

I love a good mascot and I think a character-based ident set can work really well... as long as there's variety. I loved Virgin1's Red in particular, and the Eefer idents on E4 had some neat variations. However, it can get a little stale if there's only a couple of idents repeating the same beats over and over coughcoughChannel4 so I think it's important to have those variations in there.

For live-action idents I think they have to be presenting something visually interesting and not just 'people standing about'. That's part of why Oneness fails as an ident package, because the footage itself is boring and there's no real editing/soundtrack/anything within post-production to elevate it. For example, ITV Creates gives you a simple but aesthetically pleasing art piece with some jazzy music to back it up, edited into something engaging to go before the news (it would be even better if they just mixed them all up into a permanent package but they still work either way). But for a 'winner' I have to give it to Channel 4 for the sheer chutzpah of the 2015 idents - they were perhaps a bit too high-concept to introduce Countdown but I admire that these particular live-action idents had a lot of intriguing and bizarre creative energy. I couldn't say that about the last set of Channel 5 idents (competent but rather boring) or Oneness. The creepy dancing shaman at least elicits some emotional response compared to the sea swimmers

But mostly I think the route of BBC Two and the latest Channel 5 set is what's working for me at the moment. 5's are more bare-bones but they do the job decently, whereas Two's are just a joy to watch. I'm also a big fan of ITV2's idents though the surrounding presentation is a bit lacklustre. A simple CGI motif can work really well as the basis of an ident package (it doesn't even have to be the logo) - I hope this is the move that BBC One goes with though I have my doubts about that.

[EeveeSparkles]

I love a good mascot and I think a character-based ident set can work really well... as long as there's variety. I loved Virgin1's Red in particular, and the Eefer idents on E4 had some neat variations. However, it can get a little stale if there's only a couple of idents repeating the same beats over and over coughcoughChannel4 so I think it's important to have those variations in there.

I think it's about time Channel 4 did more idents starring Blocky and his adventures through the British Isles, and maybe they should also do robotic mascots for their other channels too. (E.G. 4music, More4 etc.)

[Brekkie]

Might be worth doing a thread on character based idents to see if we can unearth some hidden gems.

Would love to see where the C4 2015 set may have gone had they expanded and continued the origin story as they initially suggested. Two of the idents were absolutely stunning, but the other two were pretty awful.


As for tropes - one thing that is annoying is when a channel does have a decent number of idents but is over reliant on a handful, often using the same ident to introduce the same show day in, day out. And for the digital channels you can add the same generic continuity to that as well.

[Blubatt]

If you do something, anything with it, even if it is the least bit of effort, to make it more than just a live action scene with a logo on top, then that's fair enough. Have the logo on the screen, but go through trees, or have people pass by it, to obscure it. Do what ITV did, and have the colours change. Something is better than nothing, in my opinion.

[Steve in Pudsey]

Can we be a bit clearer about what people mean when they talk about live action with a logo slapped over it? Because it sounds like you're saying that this is rubbish, and I don't think that's what you mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uad2RNmUWs

[Neil Jones]

I'm only going to add that idents in terms of impressiveness peaked in 1999 with Carlton's ident package they introduced, and since then the trend has been downhill for the most part. BBC Two's Curves is probably a step back towards it but we've a long way to go to get back to that Carlton package effect.

So I suppose the "trope" could be having jumped the shark in terms of style.

[W. Knight]

If you do something, anything with it, even if it is the least bit of effort, to make it more than just a live action scene with a logo on top, then that's fair enough. Have the logo on the screen, but go through trees, or have people pass by it, to obscure it. Do what ITV did, and have the colours change. Something is better than nothing, in my opinion.

That's also the reason I like STV's 2006 look...
https://youtu.be/V_01kf-OUNo?t=243
...than the “scottish tv” era. Both being live action, the S symbol here is relatable to the people in the ident. It can be an office toy, a larger fixure...

Letting people to play around with it feels warmer than just sticking a blue, flashy square on the screen.
https://youtu.be/_L-MxmA41zI?t=205

And another point is an ident needs a central image: What and where should the viewers looking at? It should be the station symbol at the centre of the screen in theory, but Carlton 1993 says otherwise...
https://youtu.be/JJ9HSYxyxqE
Where should I be looking at? The symbol or the people?

The logo's left-hand corner placement is also odd. I know, it morphs into LONDON at the end, but there're ones that don't, and later the people fade out as well, leaving the symbol at the top of the screen.
(but at least in this batch, the idents interact with the people, so bonus points, I guess.)

[Blubatt]

Can we be a bit clearer about what people mean when they talk about live action with a logo slapped over it? Because it sounds like you're saying that this is rubbish, and I don't think that's what you mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uad2RNmUWs

To clarify what I mean, I mean when the logo is the main focal point, alongside the live action. think Oneness, the Sky One idents from 2011(?), and others of that vein

[chris]

Something that’s been forgotten in the last few years is music. A good signature that wakes you up, makes you realise your show is starting, seems to me even more important now than it was in the 90s.