Freeview changes: 29th/30th June as COM7 closes

[JK1985]

I have been speaking to my aunt about these changes in Freeview, and she simply doesn't understand why Sky/Freesat and Virgin Media are able to chop and change channels with no need for the viewer to do a thing, but Freeview seems to always need some re-tuning on a regular basis.

She said it was a shame we can't have a Freeview system were no re-tuning is needed and channels just move like Sky etc do.

[Roger Darthwell]

Even though COM7 is closing, some good news about Freeview and it's current state existing until at least 2034 (likely to be moved into IP)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/futur...her-decade

This is excellent news!

[thegeek]

Reports on Digital Spy that PSB 3 is carrying capitions with words to the effect that BBC 4 HD and CBeebies HD will return to Freeview soon, and in the meantime use SD. That indicates there may well be gap, and we won't see the channels on that mux until after July 1st.

The captions cannot yet be seen by normal domestic receivers

I heard yesterday that the new encoders for the BBC Four HD/CBeebies HD were not yet behaving as they should, and probably wouldn't be ready by the time COM7 needs to be switched off. These captions sound like a plan B waiting in the wings.

[Brekkie]

Even though COM7 is closing, some good news about Freeview and it's current state existing until at least 2034 (likely to be moved into IP)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/futur...her-decade

OFCOM are campaigning for the status quo to remain beyond then as Europe looks at the issue of spectrum moving forward.

https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/ofcom-wants-to...requencies

Also in the wake of the Bilsdale transmitter fire last year a new campaign group - Broadcast 2040+ has been set up highlighting the need for an over the air service to remain..  

https://www.arqiva.com/news-views/news/b...n-launches


IMO really should have been a condition of that renewal that they are upgraded to DVB-T2, ideally by the 2026 original end date for most the muxes. That would be fair considering most channel licences on the mux coincide with that date, so having them transfer to DVB-T2, whether in HD or SD, at that point would be the least problematic.

[all new Phil]

Could an option for Freeview be that all but 1 muxes (is that what they’re called? I’m not up on the technical stuff) are converted to be HD only, and the 1 remaining has 1-5 in SD. That dangles the carrot for people to upgrade, but maintains the core services so no one is completely without. Is this feasible / possible?

[Markymark]

Could an option for Freeview be that all but 1 muxes (is that what they’re called? I’m not up on the technical stuff) are converted to be HD only, and the 1 remaining has 1-5 in SD. That dangles the carrot for people to upgrade, but maintains the core services so no one is completely without. Is this feasible / possible?

In short, yes that could be done

It would have to be one of the three PSB muxes, because only those three have universal coverage, and of course PSB 3 is already DVB T2/HD,

[technologist]

..... and have only 10 years or so life of the equipment....
Which planned at the moment to be mostly owned by Ariqiva!!
The Contracts that the Mux operators have with Ariqiva are about 25 years long to ammortise the cost of DSO
it would have been a lot better to have 15 years as under the Vaizey plan - but that is a lost cause.

But as itv is getting so helpful .... perhaps a campaign to take Muxes T2 AVC AAC
take the PSBs to HD only emission and to reduce the number of PSB muxes to two (Regional and National)
with the current third be still Universal all UK coverage ...... may be attractive!
(and all the more so if Ch4 is sold)

[Aplus1]

Even though COM7 is closing, some good news about Freeview and it's current state existing until at least 2034 (likely to be moved into IP)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/futur...her-decade

That's from August 2021. Not sure it's even accurate, either - surely Dave transmits from COM5, which doesn't reach 99% of the population. (More like 90% I think?)

[Orry Verducci]

I have been speaking to my aunt about these changes in Freeview, and she simply doesn't understand why Sky/Freesat and Virgin Media are able to chop and change channels with no need for the viewer to do a thing, but Freeview seems to always need some re-tuning on a regular basis.

She said it was a shame we can't have a Freeview system were no re-tuning is needed and channels just move like Sky etc do.

Actually it does. The multiplexes do carry details of all the other channels and multiplexes broadcast in the area, and are able to signal upcoming changes, so when changes happen most modern TV's and set top boxes are able to work out what's changed and automatically update accordingly.

However there are some receivers, particularly older ones, that don't understand or process this data in the same way modern receivers do and therefore need a full retune. As such Digital UK (aka Freeview) often advise to do a retune as they know that's always going to work in all situations.

Part of the problem is some receivers are in areas that pickup only some of the muxes, or multiple variants of the same muxes from multiple regions, which sometimes makes it tricky for the receivers to work out what information is relevent to it and therefore what's changed.

[telebox2001]

I look at it like the old analogue Sky system. If you had been an early adopter back in the late 80's or early 90's, you missed out when they started using Astra 1D as your kit couldn't pick it up. So you either stuck with what you had, or upgraded - which after a few years meant going digital anyway.

Am I right in saying that if you still have an On/ITV Digital box it's now effectively bricked?

[This is UTV]

Am I right in saying that if you still have an On/ITV Digital box it's now effectively bricked?

Since digital switch over was completed in 2012, ITV/On Digital boxes have been bricks! (Some would argue they were bricks pre-DSO!).

[Markymark]

Am I right in saying that if you still have an On/ITV Digital box it's now effectively bricked?

Since digital switch over was completed in 2012, ITV/On Digital boxes have been bricks! (Some would argue they were bricks pre-DSO!).

They were actually fully compliant to DVB T standards, more so than some of the crap that was sold at the start of the Freeview era. All they couldn't decode was the proprietary 7 day EPG, which OnDigital never carried, and what killed them was the change at DSO from 2k FFT to 8k. When OnD launched 8k chip sets were not quite available, so the UK uniquely launched DTT at 2k. Every other country in the world who adopted DVB T used 8k

Going back to Autotune features, all three of my T2 telles if left alone do actually automatically add channels fine, but it takes a few days for them to work out what's what

[LargelyALurker]

I’m sure there are lots of sets that haven’t been retuned in months or years and as long as the ‘main’ channels are there (on whatever number), they’re quite happy.

In terms of DSO2, I think that’s the problem - a large number of people are perfectly happy with the status quo. More than 5 channels, good enough picture quality. It’s not like DSO1, which had much more tangible benefits, and had been on the cards for a very long time.

I’ve got a vague recollection of some OFCOM research that showed a majority of people with Freeview HD still watch even the main channels in SD - everyone I know who’s not a bit of a geek (in the nicest way!) does exactly that. So, how do you sell the benefits of DSO2 to an indifferent public?

[Markymark]

I’m sure there are lots of sets that haven’t been retuned in months or years and as long as the ‘main’ channels are there (on whatever number), they’re quite happy.

In terms of DSO2, I think that’s the problem - a large number of people are perfectly happy with the status quo. More than 5 channels, good enough picture quality. It’s not like DSO1, which had much more tangible benefits, and had been on the cards for a very long time.

I’ve got a vague recollection of some OFCOM research that showed a majority of people with Freeview HD still watch even the main channels in SD - everyone I know who’s not a bit of a geek (in the nicest way!) does exactly that. So, how do you sell the benefits of DSO2 to an indifferent public?

Yes, anecdotally I'd say the same. I've never switched on a hotel TV, and it's come up on the HD versions of any of the main channels.
It also doesn't help that the HD channels are hidden away down the EPG, and on Sky's EPG scattered all over the shop.

[i.h]

Looks like the captions Mark mentions are now "official" - my Freeview box has a BBC Four HD on 106 here in COM7-until-a-few-years-ago land, showing "returns soon watch SD for now"

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They were actually fully compliant to DVB T standards, more so than some of the crap that was sold at the start of the Freeview era. All they couldn't decode was the proprietary 7 day EPG, which OnDigital never carried, and what killed them was the change at DSO from 2k FFT to 8k. When OnD launched 8k chip sets were not quite available, so the UK uniquely launched DTT at 2k. Every other country in the world who adopted DVB T used 8k

Not to mention that some of them were a bit pants. I don't think all the models got all the same firmware upgrades, and of course the Nokia ones were just unbearably slow. If I hadn't replaced it with Sky multiroom I'd have replaced it with a Pace DTVA or something. I'm not surprised that Carlton and Granada decided to let us keep them after all!