I'm using the word "woke" as a pejorative. I was 4 when Channel 4 started in 1982 and yes it was a progressive channel and its minority group programming was superb. I certainly don't have a problem with that, far from it. Channel 4's remit was to challenge conventions and highlight hitherto ignored or marginalised groups and talent (Desmond's was superb).but I feel it has lost its edge recently
<t>An Autie but not a naughty.</t>
Brekkie post_id=17523 time= user_id=976 Wrote:Humphrey Hacker post_id=17400 time= user_id=1128 Wrote:Channel 4 has certainly suffered more than most. It was a sensation in its early days but now has I feel fallen to the "woke" brigade. I'm not a drama fan so haven't seen Its A Sin. I fear the only way the envelope can be pushed again if there is a change again in our society. Far too much treading on eggshells.
If you only watch one drama this year watch It's a Sin. I suspect considering the way you've bought it into this thread it will be an education for you.
As I said I'm not a drama fan but I will have a look at It's A Sin.
<t>An Autie but not a naughty.</t>
James Martin
Unregistered
Progressive is a good word, to be honest I think Woke has - wrongly - become a byword for the former one.
But nevertheless - it certainly let in new talent, even if they weren't exactly on Team Maggie.
I seem to remember one comedian on the 25th retrospective documentary remembering when Blair got elected and basically saying "it was like, ah damn, who can we rip on now?"
James Martin post_id=17552 time= user_id=872 Wrote:Progressive is a good word, to be honest I think Woke has - wrongly - become a byword for the former one.
But nevertheless - it certainly let in new talent, even if they weren't exactly on Team Maggie.
I seem to remember one comedian on the 25th retrospective documentary remembering when Blair got elected and basically saying "it was like, ah damn, who can we rip on now?"
I recall Bremner, Bird and Fortune doing similar. John Fortune ended an edition of the show asking some of the Tory rebels of the time to keep Major in power because they (Bremner etc) couldn't find anything funny about Blair.
<t>An Autie but not a naughty.</t>
James Martin
Unregistered
By the way, Brekkie and I disagree on a lot but I have to also vouch for It's A Sin. I went in with an open mind, having loved the first few episodes of Years & Years but thought that show lost the plot in the final two episodes. It's very Russell T. Davies, but don't let that put you off; the first episode in particular brings some haunting parallels with a certain something that started after filming wrapped. I'd absolutely reccomend it.
I have to also confess it was the retro pres that pointed me towards it!
ITV Region: ITV News Meridian
BBC Region: BBC South Today
I was 19 and a student when C4 opened. I didn't think of it as leaning left, or in any other direction, it just felt like a TV channel that 'said things' the other three didn't seem to dare to.
I thought it was great. For me it started to lose its way when Jeremy Issacs was replaced by Michael Grade. It's a shadow of its former self today, but there are still moments when it shines
IMHO YMMV
C4 needed a reason to exist to begin with, considering this was a time when having a new channel was hotly debated. BBC1 was the factual/serious station, BBC2 was "light programming", ITV was basically commercial programming and C4 needed it's own unique identity. IMO I would class the C4 of the 80's to early 2000's as "alternative" as it really tried to experiment with formats and seasons over time. It wasn't really just for one group or anything, it just was allowed to experiment or be more like a TV artist commune in a way, though it had times where it felt like a normal channel, then other times where it full on got it's smock on and started drawing odd things on the walls.
It's always weird looking back at older 80's C4 stuff with things like long operas or lectures from universities which would never air these days.The last thing I really considered novel from C4 was "Easter Egg Live" where they got a whole bunch of animal experts in and set cameras up so you could watch all sorts of animals hatch in real time. Mind I was also fond of the American imports that had a bit less to do with the remit too.
C4 always did lean more progressive but it also did a lot of creative things or was seeking out creative endeavors. It shone it's best when it was seeking to really go outside the box. Or it lucked out on an idea that really stuck to the wall like Big Breakfast. It's less to do with political leanings and more variety to be honest.
Which I suppose somewhat ties into this discussion. Maggie (as I understand it) wanted to try and bring TV out from just London talent wise. Which had some minor success. I recall 90's and 2000's there were some productions coming out of other parts of the UK. But ultimately everything came back to London or select agencies again anyway. I mean it's pretty obvious most of ITV's stars are on the same agency. The BBC pay a lot to keep certain presenters too, which you can argue means less money towards taking chances on unknowns or prod. companies with fresher ideas than the old guard.
My personal feeling is she should of opted for some means to protect the ITV regions in the long run and maybe encouraged the BBC to expand it's regional offices
