The "little white dot"

[Inspector Sands]

Speaking of little squares in the corner, and no problem if this is a thread diversion too far, but I've always wondered about the two bars that pop up on old BBC junctions. Here's a screengrab:



What's going on here, in the top left corner? A helping indicator to continuity/playout, similar to the strobing lines over on ITV before an ad break? And I'd assume that this would be overscan and wouldn't trouble someone viewing on an old CRT?

It was to provide a cue to the next programme so that the gallery or OB had a visual cue when to start their titles.

The BBC cued the start of their programmes with cue dots, ITV cued to end of parts/programmes with cue dots.

They stopped using cue dots not long after digital TV started because digital delays could mean that the OB might not see the cue dot disappear until its too late

[Humphrey Hacker]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

[Markymark]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

Yes, that is something from the movie industry, and predates television, but was also used for TV film productions during the last century. Basically a signal that the film reel is about to end, and for the cinema projectionist to fire up the next projector and reel.

Cinemas would have two projectors, and use them for alternate reels (obvs)

[TIGHazard]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

[Markymark]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

They were very likely played directly from Telecine. Transferring to VT for broadcast became 'a thing' during the 80s

[Bluecortina]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

They were very likely played directly from Telecine. Transferring to VT for broadcast became 'a thing' during the 80s

Indeed. From memory the two programmes mentioned in this part of the thread were 16mm one hour jobbies so would have fitted on one reel so no changeovers required. The cue mark would still be of use to the transmission staff as a back up to breaks etc.

[Markymark]

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

They were very likely played directly from Telecine. Transferring to VT for broadcast became 'a thing' during the 80s

Indeed. From memory the two programmes mentioned in this part of the thread were 16mm one hour jobbies so would have fitted on one reel so no changeovers required. The cue mark would still be of use to the transmission staff as a back up to breaks etc.

Presumably the copies for 'domestic' consumption had the break bumpers edited in? What was in, and how long was the gap between the break bumpers?

[Bluecortina]

They were very likely played directly from Telecine. Transferring to VT for broadcast became 'a thing' during the 80s

Indeed. From memory the two programmes mentioned in this part of the thread were 16mm one hour jobbies so would have fitted on one reel so no changeovers required. The cue mark would still be of use to the transmission staff as a back up to breaks etc.

Presumably the copies for 'domestic' consumption had the break bumpers edited in? What was in, and how long was the gap between the break bumpers?

I'm afraid I do not understand your question. (And is a 'break bumper' what we used to call an end or beginning of a part?). Sorry.

[Markymark]

Indeed. From memory the two programmes mentioned in this part of the thread were 16mm one hour jobbies so would have fitted on one reel so no changeovers required. The cue mark would still be of use to the transmission staff as a back up to breaks etc.

Presumably the copies for 'domestic' consumption had the break bumpers edited in? What was in, and how long was the gap between the break bumpers?

I'm afraid I do not understand your question. (And is a 'break bumper' what we used to call an end or beginning of a part?). Sorry.

The 'End of Part 1'......'Part 2' inserts (that lasted a few seconds, along with a few bars of the theme tune)

[Neil Jones]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

I seem to recall they were dubbed "cigarette burns" because of the shape they made. Or was that something you would see more of in the cinema?

[Markymark]

Watching episodes of The Sweeney and The Professionals I noticed a small circle that would appear on the the top right corner of the screen a few seconds before an ad break. Was that a cue dot of sorts?

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

I seem to recall they were dubbed "cigarette burns" because of the shape they made. Or was that something you would see more of in the cinema?

You used to see them on any film material, either movies, made for TV stuff (like The Professionals etc) and even news footage.

You don't see them on the same old movies today, because just about everything has been remastered etc, and along with the random dust and blemishes digitally removed

[Bluecortina]

Presumably the copies for 'domestic' consumption had the break bumpers edited in? What was in, and how long was the gap between the break bumpers?

I'm afraid I do not understand your question. (And is a 'break bumper' what we used to call an end or beginning of a part?). Sorry.

The 'End of Part 1'......'Part 2' inserts (that lasted a few seconds, along with a few bars of the theme tune)

Ah, I think I understand your question now. It was a very long time ago, but from memory there could be all sorts of end of parts etc. First off a confession, I have never watched any episodes of The Sweeney or The Professionals so can't speak with any authority at all, but ... I do now have the short 'jingle' of The Professionals going round in my mind, about 3 seconds worth?

If the End of Parts had some sort of animation etc then I suppose it would have to have been supplied as part of the print. But if it didn't then most likely it just ended or started at the appropriate point. You have to remember all this material was previewed by a member of transmission staff for compliance and editing down to 'fit a slot' as required. As part of that process the previewer would write copious notes as to the screen action in the last minute of run up to the End of Part, in this way when it was actually transmitted the tx controller would have those notes on his lap and could very well judge when the end of the reel was about to happen. The reels were also very accurately timed with a stopwatch so with those two aids it was a simple matter for the tx staff to cut or fade to an End of Part slide etc - very, very common practice. Personally I cannot recall any 35mm filmed material having music over some sort of integral visual End of Part but of course it may have happened. Stuff like 'Little House on the Prairie' etc (35 on 3 reels) would have no baked in 'End of Parts' etc - they just went to black, perhaps sometimes fading to black. You asked about the time between the End of a Part and the beginning of another part on a continuous reel of a 16mm presentation? I'd be a liar if said I remembered, but it must obviously have been short enough for the telecine operator to let the film continue on and 'park it' on a Six in the gate (5 seconds roll up). I do not recall it being any big problem.

There was quite an art to hitting the 'Stop' button on a rolling telecine machine such that when it wound down to actually stop you left it parked on a 'Six in the gate'. Does any of this answer your question?

[Bluecortina]

I believe that form of cue dot is to indicate changing between film reels. IIRC Sweeney and Professionals were filmed on 16mm film (not sure how they were originally delivered to transmission) but that form of cue dot would have been used in the lab in some way.

I seemey were dubbed "cigarette burns" because of the shape they made to recall th. Or was that something you would see more of in the cinema?

You used to see them on any film material, either movies, made for TV stuff (like The Professionals etc) and even news footage.

You don't see them on the same old movies today, because just about everything has been remastered etc, and along with the random dust and blemishes digitally removed

Quite a nifty little machine to put the cue dot on a film. Put the film in a sort of clamp then bring down the actual 'scriber'. The scriber looked like a small pair of dividers, it went into the emulsion side of the film and rotated hence scratching out a small circle.

[IBM]

In the Youtube Gold thread a video was posted showing how the JFK assassination was reported by CBS . That video shows several newsflashes as the situation progressed in seriousness. At a certain point, just after putting up a slide, some sort of marker can be seen in the upper right corner of the screen, which appears as an overlay a few seconds after the slide was put to air



The video shows the point at which the marker appears (1075s in in case the video doesn't link doesn't go there as it should)

https://youtu.be/z_iYpNEbMR4?t=1075


At an earlier point in the same video, the newscaster explained that they were pausing to allow "our stations to join the network". There was some frame roll at times thereafter, suggesting a lack of sync, so I'm wondering:

1. Is that mark used to cue networked stations, or am I overthinking it?.
2. Was such networking commonplace in the US at that time, or was it something they lashed together under the circumstances?
3. If it is a cue dot, how might this have been inserted during that time period?

[Mike]

I don't know too much about US TV networking in the 60s, but from memory the bulletins were in sound only as the cameras had to 'warm up' and there was no planned bulletin. Maybe the marker was inserted to tell the local affiliates that Walter Cronkite had started talking and to take the sound/feed?