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+--- Thread: Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise (/showthread.php?tid=955)
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - VMPhil - 03-02-2022
I thought some forumers may be interested in this upcoming Radio 2 documentary about Pop Idol to mark the 20th anniversary of the final.
I've been watching clips from Pop Idol recently and struck by how different it feels to what came later with the X Factor and so on. Certainly still feels fresh in that regard, but I'm sure would look old fashioned compared to what's come since.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0014hq5
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Gary Baldy - 03-02-2022
Pop Idol’s stripped-back approach was much better than the X Factor’s focus on aesthetics- I know X Factor went through cycles of one year trying to go back to basics, then the next year being something new and fresh, then going back to basics again etc, and it was the constant flip-flopping between formats that killed X Factor off!
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Brekkie - 03-02-2022
Worth noting though X Factor lasted 16 years, Pop Idol just the two. Yes, a bit of Cowell politics was at play in that decision but ultimately you don't replace one of your most successful new formats after just two years unless you have serious questions about it.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Steve Williams - 03-02-2022
Brekkie post_id=66730 time= user_id=976 Wrote:Worth noting though X Factor lasted 16 years, Pop Idol just the two. Yes, a bit of Cowell politics was at play in that decision but ultimately you don't replace one of your most successful new formats after just two years unless you have serious questions about it.
Well, maybe, but the reason Pop Idol never came back was that seemingly they wanted Cowell on every year because he was so famous, and Cowell only wanted to do X Factor, what with it being his creation, so they only did X Factor. There was definitely an announcement that they were planning a third series of Popstars, finding boy/girl duos in the hope some of them might start getting off with each other. And of course in the US, Pop Idol, as American Idol, lasted for many years and The X Factor was a flop (though I do love that, because of all the contractaul wrangling, Cowell had to keep on doing American Idol for years).
I always enjoyed Pop Idol, and to my eyes it is the much better format than X Factor which, for obvious reasons, had to throw all kinds of additional rules and contrivances into the mix, as opposed to Pop Idol's simple format. And as I've said before, one thing I used to love about Pop Idol is that, whether that was actually the case or not, it actually felt like it was on the audience's side and was honest with it, I always mention the bit where Rik Waller got a bye (before he pulled out completely) and on a lesser programme they would probably have swept that under the carpet, but here they were totally upfront about it, discussed it on air and got the audience to ask the panel questions about it. That seemed a really interesting thing to do and it felt like it was a show that was happy to reveal all its inner workings (a bit like how on the original Popstars they were totally upfront about the fact hardly anybody had turned up to some of the auditions). Of course in Pop Idol II we had Pop Idol Extra on ITV2 for three hours a day which pretty much showed the rehearsals in full, although that's probably more to do with the early days of ITV2 being desperate for anything to show rather than any great accountability drive. But it was very interesting, and so even more disappointing when all that kind of thing went out of the window on X Factor and it became increasingly contrived and would endlessly boast about its high ratings and so on.
I do remember that on the night of the final in 2002, two friends of mine were attending a show at the ICA which they'd booked ages before, and the second it finished they darted out of the auditorium and went to one of the internet-connected computers they had in the foyer to find out the result. And then shouted "Will?!?!" at the tops of their voices. At the ICA.
I do remember that when it was announced and they said they were going to have the same people on singing every week, I thought that would be really boring, but of course that turned out to be a masterstroke, and it also had a proper creative benefit as well, because if they'd done a vote-for-your-favourite-and-then-there's-a-final, Gareth would have had it sewn up from day one, but because we got to see the artists grow over the series it ended up with a more satisfying winner. Though of course Cowell was always convinced Gareth was the best, and he ended up getting pretty much the same prize, Will just got to release his record first. I doubt you'd be able to get away with that these days. A few months later ITV showed a programme from the live tour which was the most ridiculous Gareth-heavy edit imaginable, Will was barely in it, as if it had been made by his fan club. Which given Cowell was involved, it probably was.
It all started very quietly, mind, the autumn of 2001 was a very strange one for telly because we had the massive changes on Saturday night with The Premiership, and Soapstars was going out around the same time to minimal impact, and then there was 9/11 which ripped up the schedules completely. And indeed one of the first audition shows went out straight after breaking news coverage of the invasion of Afghanistan, which was hardly the ideal lead-in. But it became very popular, very quickly, and meant all the problems with The Premiership were forgotten almost immediately.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Steve Williams - 03-02-2022
I'll shut up in a minute, but I'm also reminded that earlier in 2001 there was an episode of Star For A Night (the most accurate title of all these shows, with no interest in what happened after that) where the judges were Nigel Martin-Smith and Barbara Windsor every week, and two guest judges, one of whom that week was Ian Hyland, the TV critic of the Mirror. And Hyland was really critical of all the performers, far more than was usually the case on that show when everyone would be brilliant, and the audience were booing throughout, and Martin-Smith and Windsor looked disgusted, and there were loads of letters about it on Points of View. Of course, six months later, that was what we came to expect from talent show judges, and I wonder if Hyland ever sticks pins in a voodoo doll of Simon Cowell for stealing his act.
Despite all that, one of the best things about Pop Idol was that Ant and Dec would jolly it along and send up Cowell throughout to ensure it all stayed fairly pleasant, and they were always quick to point out that Cowell's criticism was constructive and the contestants could learn from it. That was what Patrick Kielty forgot on Fame Academy when he ended up just endlessly contradicting everything Richard Park said and basically calling him a moron, and it was really unpleasant. I know Kielty had clearly decided to be on the contestants' side, which was fair enough, but if you end up undermining and rejecting everything the judges say, you just get the audience wondering why the hell the judges are on the show in the first place.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Brekkie - 03-02-2022
I do wonder if Will hadn't won whether it would be so fondly remembered. That was such a moment and arguably the first big reality TV upset, and somewhat gave them a bit more credibility whilst Gareth Gates career didn't really go anywhere.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Score - 03-02-2022
The other interesting thing is that the first series of The X Factor was considered a bit of a ratings disappointment compared to Pop Idol. It had lost to Strictly most weeks and whilst the numbers were considered good for the time, it did not hit the highs of Pop Idol. Rather than question the format though ITV at the time wondered if the singing competition format might be on the decline (!) and so for 2005 decided to stick with the format that had "the star power of Simon Cowell and Sharon Osbourne", as per Broadcast.
Of course the second series of X Factor did quite a bit better than the first (and was a far better show) and they never really looked back after then. I do think there's a lot of rose tinted glasses when it comes to Pop Idol. The second series was considered to be pretty dreadful and The X Factor in its prime hit highs that Pop Idol never reached. I think because The X Factor went on too long in the end (the opposite problem to Pop Idol) there's a tendency to think of the last few years when it was on the wane rather than just how massively successful and entertaining it was for a long period of time. There's probably a book to be written on the rise and fall of The X Factor.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - tellyblues - 03-02-2022
For me, the standard of contestants on The X Factor dipped after Series 9 (2012) with James Arthur and nobody afterwards had it in them to be a pop star. Records were no longer getting to No.1 and some winners didn't even release albums so the show became irrelevant.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - johnnyboy - 03-02-2022
Although I enjoyed the X Factor in its heyday, it much preferred Pop Idol (Pop Stars I wasn't bothered about personally).
I thought the titles, the music, the pacing, the talent, and Ant & Dec made Pop Idol a much more compelling proposition than X Factor.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Brekkie - 03-02-2022
The first series set especially was a masterpiece.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - johnnyboy - 03-02-2022
Brekkie post_id=66771 time= user_id=976 Wrote:The first series set especially was a masterpiece.
Agreed. The face off between Simon and Will Young set the tone of the series.
I think, for the second series, ITV2 used to have a daily 3 hour show following auditions, rehearsals, and so on. I used to tape it I enjoyed it that much.
Like I say, X Factor was great when it was good but I feel that I knew the contestants more in Pop Idol without the need for syrupy sob stories to get me rooting for them. Sure, Gareth's stuttering was a thing but I never felt that Gareth himself nor the contestants particularly played on it for viewing figures and popularity.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Steve Williams - 03-02-2022
johnnyboy post_id=66767 time= user_id=925 Wrote:Although I enjoyed the X Factor in its heyday, it much preferred Pop Idol (Pop Stars I wasn't bothered about personally).
I thought the titles, the music, the pacing, the talent, and Ant & Dec made Pop Idol a much more compelling proposition than X Factor.
I think Ant and Dec's role in making Pop Idol a success can't be overestimated, they played an absolutely vital role in proceedings. I watched the first series of The X Factor before getting fed up of it, and one of the reasons why I didn't like it as much (as well as all the contrivances and the fact I don't think Sharon Osbourne is a very nice person) was because I didn't think Kate Thornton was a very good presenter of it, she got a bit overwhelmed by proceedings and it made it a bit of a stressful watch. There were all the bits in the vote reveals where she would endlessly tell them to stand on their marks and tell off Rowetta for getting too emotional and running around too much, and it made it all seem a bit cold and unpleasant. I know she had to do it to keep the show moving and she had a million voices in her ear, but Ant and Dec were able to do all that admin and make it look a lot more natural, and made the show seem a lot more fun and spontaneous even if it was as choreographed as X Factor.
Funnily enough I'd bailed out of Popstars The Rivals halfway through, partly for the same reason, every episode ended with extended bouts of crying and it started to become a bit embarassing to watch, and though I like Davina I didn't think she helped much. These kinds of shows are so hard to do because they're very complicated programmes to do in the first place, let alone when emotions start running high, and only really exceptional presenters can make them work, which is why Ant and Dec were so good on it.
As I've said before, by the end of The X Factor when it was falling apart I had no idea why Dermot was still there, because I didn't think it was doing him any favours, as he had to do so much fire-fighting with the endless changes of the rules and doing endless pieces looking seriously into the camera and saying someone else had pulled out "due to reasons beyond our control", and the enormous egos of all the judges. I know he was getting a load of money for it, but it was doing nothing for his reputation.
Score post_id=66755 time= user_id=1126 Wrote:Of course the second series of X Factor did quite a bit better than the first (and was a far better show) and they never really looked back after then. I do think there's a lot of rose tinted glasses when it comes to Pop Idol. The second series was considered to be pretty dreadful and The X Factor in its prime hit highs that Pop Idol never reached. I think because The X Factor went on too long in the end (the opposite problem to Pop Idol) there's a tendency to think of the last few years when it was on the wane rather than just how massively successful and entertaining it was for a long period of time. There's probably a book to be written on the rise and fall of The X Factor.
It's certainly true the second series of Pop Idol wasn't as good as the first, it seemed to be trying a bit too hard to replicate all the memorable bits from series one, and whereas in series one it felt like a show that was building momentum week by week, it knew it was a hit by then, so the final in series one was an hour for the performances then half an hour later for the results, whereas the final in series two was a huge three hour show.*
As you say, initially the figures for X Factor were disappointing and it seemed that they and Strictly were cancelling themselves out, I remember Brucie saying how tickled he was they were neck and neck with a show that got a hundred times the amount of column inches. Of course, this was the era when, because the results shows were on the same night, they would both start at around 5.30 which seems unthinkable now.
X Factor really exploded when Strictly stupidly abandoned the Sunday results show in 2009, which had been doing so well for them, and allowed X Factor to nip in and benefit hugely.
* Of course, the first episode of series two went out opposite Fame Academy, which was a huge battle at the time, and it turned out to be the hottest day in British history so the two most-hyped programmes of the year ended up going out when virtually nobody was indoors.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Steve Williams - 03-02-2022
Gary Baldy post_id=66709 time= user_id=2113 Wrote:Pop Idol’s stripped-back approach was much better than the X Factor’s focus on aesthetics- I know X Factor went through cycles of one year trying to go back to basics, then the next year being something new and fresh, then going back to basics again etc, and it was the constant flip-flopping between formats that killed X Factor off!
This is the thing, isn't it - Cowell made a big thing of being able to go to his audience and saying "look, we've heard what you're saying and we're going to go back to basics", but the number of times they did that means that by the end of it you lose all credibility, and illustrates that you're just flinging everything at the wall to see if anything sticks.
This was where all the boasting they used to do about the ratings came back to bite them, when they used to spend so much time bigging up how many people were watching and of course Louis Walsh repeatedly taunting the opposition. All very well when you're winning, but that means when the figures start falling you then can't say "well, the audiences aren't what they were but the show is better than ever", because you'd spent the last few years saying ratings were the be-all and end-all.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - thebigdog2020 - 03-02-2022
Steve Williams post_id=66782 time= user_id=1326 Wrote:This was where all the boasting they used to do about the ratings came back to bite them, when they used to spend so much time bigging up how many people were watching and of course Louis Walsh repeatedly taunting the opposition. All very well when you're winning, but that means when the figures start falling you then can't say "well, the audiences aren't what they were but the show is better than ever", because you'd spent the last few years saying ratings were the be-all and end-all.
Exactly that was the stick to beat the X Factor with as you had Cowell saying about Peter Andre on SCD and how they would win and didn't. You also had Dermot O'Leary on Never Mind the Buzzcocks going on to Arlene Phillips about ratings when X Factor was ahead and in reality Strictly and X Factor were going head to head between 2004-2019 and it was only Cheryl Cole first period of 2008-2010 and especially when X Factor did the Sunday results for the first time when Strictly dropped theirs it went massive.
Pop Idol: Birth of a Franchise - Brekkie - 03-02-2022
Steve Williams post_id=66780 time= user_id=1326 Wrote:I think Ant and Dec's role in making Pop Idol a success can't be overestimatedIndeed they pretty much created the model for auditions in these shows as they weren't actually supposed to be there until the live shows and I think it was supposed to all be done in a similar documentary style to Popstars, but they started filming bits with contestants and kind of accidently gave the audition rounds the point of difference they probably needed for any legal challenges of the time.
The weak point though was the judges - they were absolutely carried by Cowell and I think part of the reason ITV were happy to go with the clean slate The X Factor provided. And as Louis Walsh would say Pete Waterman has never really had the "likeability" factor, something Cowell did manage in his role of supposedly being the one we were supposed to hate.